Long Discourses 7

With Jāliya

So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was staying near Kosambī, in Ghosita’s Monastery.

Now at that time two renunciates—the wanderer Muṇḍiya and Jāliya, the pupil of the wood-bowl ascetic—came to the Buddha and exchanged greetings with him. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, they stood to one side and said to the Buddha, “Friend Gotama, are the soul and the body the same thing, or they are different things?”

“Well then, friends, listen and apply your mind well, I will speak.”

“Yes, friend,” they replied. The Buddha said this:

“Take the case when a Realized One arises in the world, perfected, a fully awakened Buddha … That’s how a bhikkhu is accomplished in ethics. …

They enter and remain in the first jhāna … When a bhikkhu knows and sees like this, would it be appropriate to say of them: ‘The soul and the body are the same thing’ or ‘The soul and the body are different things’?”

“It would, friend.”

“But friends, I know and see like this. Nevertheless, I do not say: ‘The soul and the body are the same thing’ or ‘The soul and the body are different things’. …

They enter and remain in the second jhāna … third jhāna … fourth jhāna. When a bhikkhu knows and sees like this, would it be appropriate to say of them: ‘The soul and the body are the same thing’ or ‘The soul and the body are different things’?”

“It would, friend.”

“But friends, I know and see like this. Nevertheless, I do not say: ‘The soul and the body are the same thing’ or ‘The soul and the body are different things’. …

They extend and project the mind toward knowledge and vision … When a bhikkhu knows and sees like this, would it be appropriate to say of them: ‘The soul and the body are the same thing’ or ‘The soul and the body are different things’?”

“It would, friend.”

“But friends, I know and see like this. Nevertheless, I do not say: ‘The soul and the body are the same thing’ or ‘The soul and the body are different things’. …

They understand: ‘… there is no return to any state of existence.’ When a bhikkhu knows and sees like this, would it be appropriate to say of them: ‘The soul and the body are the same thing’ or ‘The soul and the body are different things’?”

“It would not, friend.”

“But friends, I know and see like this. Nevertheless, I do not say: ‘The soul and the body are the same thing’ or ‘The soul and the body are different things’.”

That is what the Buddha said. Satisfied, the two renunciates approved what the Buddha said.