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अङ्गुत्तर निकाय ३।६७
Aṅguttara Nikāya 3.67
Numbered Discourses 3.67
७। महावग्ग
7. Mahāvagga
7. The Great Chapter
कथावत्थुसुत्त
Kathāvatthusutta
Topics of Discussion
“तीणिमानि, भिक्खवे, कथावत्थूनि। कतमानि तीणि? अतीतं वा, भिक्खवे, अद्धानं आरब्भ कथं कथेय्य: ‘एवं अहोसि अतीतमद्धानन्ऽति। अनागतं वा, भिक्खवे, अद्धानं आरब्भ कथं कथेय्य: ‘एवं भविस्सति अनागतमद्धानन्ऽति। एतरहि वा, भिक्खवे, पच्चुप्पन्नं अद्धानं आरब्भ कथं कथेय्य: ‘एवं होति एतरहि पच्चुप्पन्नमद्धानन्ऽति।
“Tīṇimāni, bhikkhave, kathāvatthūni. Katamāni tīṇi? Atītaṁ vā, bhikkhave, addhānaṁ ārabbha kathaṁ katheyya: ‘evaṁ ahosi atītamaddhānan’ti. Anāgataṁ vā, bhikkhave, addhānaṁ ārabbha kathaṁ katheyya: ‘evaṁ bhavissati anāgatamaddhānan’ti. Etarahi vā, bhikkhave, paccuppannaṁ addhānaṁ ārabbha kathaṁ katheyya: ‘evaṁ hoti etarahi paccuppannamaddhānan’ti.
“There are, bhikkhus, these three topics of discussion. What three? You might discuss the past: ‘That is how it was in the past.’ You might discuss the future: ‘That is how it will be in the future.’ Or you might discuss the present: ‘This is how it is at present.’
कथासम्पयोगेन, भिक्खवे, पुग्गलो वेदितब्बो यदि वा कच्छो यदि वा अकच्छोति। सचायं, भिक्खवे, पुग्गलो पञ्हं पुट्ठो समानो एकंसब्याकरणीयं पञ्हं न एकंसेन ब्याकरोति, विभज्जब्याकरणीयं पञ्हं न विभज्ज ब्याकरोति, पटिपुच्छाब्याकरणीयं पञ्हं न पटिपुच्छा ब्याकरोति, ठपनीयं पञ्हं न ठपेति, एवं सन्तायं, भिक्खवे, पुग्गलो अकच्छो होति। सचे पनायं, भिक्खवे, पुग्गलो पञ्हं पुट्ठो समानो एकंसब्याकरणीयं पञ्हं एकंसेन ब्याकरोति, विभज्जब्याकरणीयं पञ्हं विभज्ज ब्याकरोति, पटिपुच्छाब्याकरणीयं पञ्हं पटिपुच्छा ब्याकरोति, ठपनीयं पञ्हं ठपेति, एवं सन्तायं, भिक्खवे, पुग्गलो कच्छो होति।
Kathāsampayogena, bhikkhave, puggalo veditabbo yadi vā kaccho yadi vā akacchoti. Sacāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno ekaṁsabyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ na ekaṁsena byākaroti, vibhajjabyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ na vibhajja byākaroti, paṭipucchābyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ na paṭipucchā byākaroti, ṭhapanīyaṁ pañhaṁ na ṭhapeti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo akaccho hoti. Sace panāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno ekaṁsabyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ ekaṁsena byākaroti, vibhajjabyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ vibhajja byākaroti, paṭipucchābyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ paṭipucchā byākaroti, ṭhapanīyaṁ pañhaṁ ṭhapeti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo kaccho hoti.
You can know whether or not a person is competent to hold a discussion by seeing how they take part in a discussion. When a person is asked a question, if it needs to be answered definitively and they don’t answer it definitively; or if it needs analysis and they answer without analyzing it; or if it needs a counter-question and they answer without a counter-question; or if it should be set aside and they don’t set it aside, then that person is not competent to hold a discussion. When a person is asked a question, if it needs to be answered definitively and they answer it definitively; or if it needs analysis and they answer after analyzing it; or if it needs a counter-question and they answer with a counter-question; or if it should be set aside and they set it aside, then that person is competent to hold a discussion.
कथासम्पयोगेन, भिक्खवे, पुग्गलो वेदितब्बो यदि वा कच्छो यदि वा अकच्छोति। सचायं, भिक्खवे, पुग्गलो पञ्हं पुट्ठो समानो ठानाठाने न सण्ठाति परिकप्पे न सण्ठाति अञ्ञातवादे न सण्ठाति पटिपदाय न सण्ठाति, एवं सन्तायं, भिक्खवे, पुग्गलो अकच्छो होति। सचे पनायं, भिक्खवे, पुग्गलो पञ्हं पुट्ठो समानो ठानाठाने सण्ठाति परिकप्पे सण्ठाति अञ्ञातवादे सण्ठाति पटिपदाय सण्ठाति, एवं सन्तायं, भिक्खवे, पुग्गलो कच्छो होति।
Kathāsampayogena, bhikkhave, puggalo veditabbo yadi vā kaccho yadi vā akacchoti. Sacāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno ṭhānāṭhāne na saṇṭhāti parikappe na saṇṭhāti aññātavāde1 na saṇṭhāti paṭipadāya na saṇṭhāti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo akaccho hoti. Sace panāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno ṭhānāṭhāne saṇṭhāti parikappe saṇṭhāti aññātavāde saṇṭhāti paṭipadāya saṇṭhāti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo kaccho hoti.
You can know whether or not a person is competent to hold a discussion by seeing how they take part in a discussion. When a person is asked a question, if they’re not consistent about what their position is and what it isn’t; about what they propose; about speaking from what they know; and about the appropriate procedure, then that person is not competent to hold a discussion. When a person is asked a question, if they are consistent about what their position is and what it isn’t; about what they propose; about speaking from what they know; and about the appropriate procedure, then that person is competent to hold a discussion.
कथासम्पयोगेन, भिक्खवे, पुग्गलो वेदितब्बो यदि वा कच्छो यदि वा अकच्छोति। सचायं, भिक्खवे, पुग्गलो पञ्हं पुट्ठो समानो अञ्ञेनञ्ञं पटिचरति, बहिद्धा कथं अपनामेति, कोपञ्च दोसञ्च अप्पच्चयञ्च पातुकरोति, एवं सन्तायं, भिक्खवे, पुग्गलो अकच्छो होति। सचे पनायं, भिक्खवे, पुग्गलो पञ्हं पुट्ठो समानो न अञ्ञेनञ्ञं पटिचरति न बहिद्धा कथं अपनामेति, न कोपञ्च दोसञ्च अप्पच्चयञ्च पातुकरोति, एवं सन्तायं, भिक्खवे, पुग्गलो कच्छो होति।
Kathāsampayogena, bhikkhave, puggalo veditabbo yadi vā kaccho yadi vā akacchoti. Sacāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno aññenaññaṁ paṭicarati, bahiddhā kathaṁ apanāmeti, kopañca dosañca appaccayañca pātukaroti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo akaccho hoti. Sace panāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno na aññenaññaṁ paṭicarati na bahiddhā kathaṁ apanāmeti, na kopañca dosañca appaccayañca pātukaroti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo kaccho hoti.
You can know whether or not a person is competent to hold a discussion by seeing how they take part in a discussion. When a person is asked a question, if they dodge the issue; distract the discussion with irrelevant points; or display annoyance, hate, and bitterness, then that person is not competent to hold a discussion. When a person is asked a question, if they don’t dodge the issue; distract the discussion with irrelevant points; or display annoyance, hate, and bitterness, then that person is competent to hold a discussion.
कथासम्पयोगेन, भिक्खवे, पुग्गलो वेदितब्बो यदि वा कच्छो यदि वा अकच्छोति। सचायं, भिक्खवे, पुग्गलो पञ्हं पुट्ठो समानो अभिहरति अभिमद्दति अनुपजग्घति खलितं गण्हाति, एवं सन्तायं, भिक्खवे, पुग्गलो अकच्छो होति। सचे पनायं, भिक्खवे, पुग्गलो पञ्हं पुट्ठो समानो नाभिहरति नाभिमद्दति न अनुपजग्घति न खलितं गण्हाति, एवं सन्तायं, भिक्खवे, पुग्गलो कच्छो होति।
Kathāsampayogena, bhikkhave, puggalo veditabbo yadi vā kaccho yadi vā akacchoti. Sacāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno abhiharati abhimaddati anupajagghati2 khalitaṁ gaṇhāti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo akaccho hoti. Sace panāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno nābhiharati nābhimaddati na anupajagghati na khalitaṁ gaṇhāti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo kaccho hoti.
You can know whether or not a person is competent to hold a discussion by seeing how they take part in a discussion. When a person is asked a question, if they intimidate, crush, mock, or seize on trivial mistakes, then that person is not competent to hold a discussion. When a person is asked a question, if they don’t intimidate, crush, mock, or seize on trivial mistakes, then that person is competent to hold a discussion.
कथासम्पयोगेन, भिक्खवे, पुग्गलो वेदितब्बो यदि वा सौपनिसो यदि वा अनुपनिसोति। अनोहितसोतो, भिक्खवे, अनुपनिसो होति, ओहितसोतो सौपनिसो होति। सो सौपनिसो समानो अभिजानाति एकं धम्मं, परिजानाति एकं धम्मं, पजहति एकं धम्मं, सच्छिकरोति एकं धम्मं। सो अभिजानन्तो एकं धम्मं, परिजानन्तो एकं धम्मं, पजहन्तो एकं धम्मं, सच्छिकरोन्तो एकं धम्मं सम्माविमुत्तिं फुसति। एतदत्था, भिक्खवे, कथा; एतदत्था मन्तना; एतदत्था उपनिसा; एतदत्थं सोतावधानं, यदिदं अनुपादा चित्तस्स विमोक्खोति।
Kathāsampayogena, bhikkhave, puggalo veditabbo yadi vā saupaniso yadi vā anupanisoti. Anohitasoto, bhikkhave, anupaniso hoti, ohitasoto saupaniso hoti. So saupaniso samāno abhijānāti ekaṁ dhammaṁ, parijānāti ekaṁ dhammaṁ, pajahati ekaṁ dhammaṁ, sacchikaroti ekaṁ dhammaṁ. So abhijānanto ekaṁ dhammaṁ, parijānanto ekaṁ dhammaṁ, pajahanto ekaṁ dhammaṁ, sacchikaronto ekaṁ dhammaṁ sammāvimuttiṁ phusati. Etadatthā, bhikkhave, kathā; etadatthā mantanā; etadatthā upanisā; etadatthaṁ sotāvadhānaṁ, yadidaṁ anupādā cittassa vimokkhoti.
You can know whether or not a person has what’s required by seeing how they take part in a discussion. If they actively listen they have what’s required; if they don’t actively listen they don’t have what’s required. Someone who has what’s required directly knows one thing, completely understands one thing, gives up one thing, and realizes one thing—and then they experience complete freedom. This is the purpose of discussion, consultation, the requirements, and listening well, that is, the liberation of the mind by not grasping.
ये विरुद्धा सल्लपन्ति, विनिविट्ठा समुस्सिता; अनरियगुणमासज्ज, अञ्ञोञ्ञविवरेसिनो।
Ye viruddhā sallapanti, viniviṭṭhā samussitā; Anariyaguṇamāsajja, aññoññavivaresino.
Those who converse with hostility, too sure of themselves, arrogant, ignoble, attacking virtues, they look for flaws in each other.
दुब्भासितं विक्खलितं, सम्पमोहं पराजयं; अञ्ञोञ्ञस्साभिनन्दन्ति, तदरियो कथनाचरे।
Dubbhāsitaṁ vikkhalitaṁ, sampamohaṁ3 parājayaṁ; Aññoññassābhinandanti, tadariyo kathanācare.
They rejoice together when their opponent speaks poorly and makes a mistake, becoming confused and defeated—but the noble ones don’t discuss like this.
सचे चस्स कथाकामो, कालमञ्ञाय पण्डितो; धम्मट्ठपटिसंयुत्ता, या अरियचरिता कथा।
Sace cassa kathākāmo, kālamaññāya paṇḍito; Dhammaṭṭhapaṭisaṁyuttā, yā ariyacaritā4 kathā.
If an astute person wants to hold a discussion connected with the teaching and its meaning—the kind of discussion that noble ones hold—then that wise one should start the discussion,
तं कथं कथये धीरो, अविरुद्धो अनुस्सितो; अनुन्नतेन मनसा, अपळासो असाहसो।
Taṁ kathaṁ kathaye dhīro, aviruddho anussito; Anunnatena manasā, apaḷāso asāhaso.
knowing when the time is right, neither hostile nor arrogant. Not over-excited, contemptuous, or aggressive,
अनुसूयायमानो सो, सम्मदञ्ञाय भासति; सुभासितं अनुमोदेय्य, दुब्भट्ठे नापसादये।
Anusūyāyamāno5 so, sammadaññāya bhāsati; Subhāsitaṁ anumodeyya, dubbhaṭṭhe nāpasādaye.
or with a mind full of jealousy, they’d speak from what they rightly know. They agree with what was well spoken, without criticizing what was poorly said.
उपारम्भं न सिक्खेय्य, खलितञ्च न गाहये; नाभिहरे नाभिमद्दे, न वाचं पयुतं भणे।
Upārambhaṁ na sikkheyya, khalitañca na gāhaye; Nābhihare nābhimadde, na vācaṁ payutaṁ bhaṇe.
They’d not persist in finding faults, nor seize on trivial mistakes, neither intimidating nor crushing the other, nor would they speak suggestively.
अञ्ञातत्थं पसादत्थं, सतं वे होति मन्तना; एवं खो अरिया मन्तेन्ति, एसा अरियान मन्तना; एतदञ्ञाय मेधावी, न समुस्सेय्य मन्तये”ति।
Aññātatthaṁ pasādatthaṁ, sataṁ ve hoti mantanā; Evaṁ kho ariyā mantenti, esā ariyāna mantanā; Etadaññāya medhāvī, na samusseyya mantaye”ti.
Good people consult for the sake of knowledge and clarity. That’s how the noble ones consult, this is a noble consultation. Knowing this, an intelligent person would consult without arrogance.”
सत्तमं।
Sattamaṁ.
The authoritative text of the Aṅguttara Nikāya is the Pāli text. The English translation is provided as an aid to the study of the original Pāli text. [CREDITS »]
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