Saṁyutta Nikāya 12.18

The Related Suttas Collection 12.18

2. Āhāravagga

2. Fuel

Timbarukasutta

With Timbaruka

Sāvatthiyaṁ viharati.

At Sāvatthī.

Atha kho timbaruko paribbājako yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodi. Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho timbaruko paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:

Then the wanderer Timbaruka went up to the Buddha, and exchanged greetings with him. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to the Buddha:

“Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkataṁ sukhadukkhanti?

“Well, Master Gotama, are pleasure and pain made by oneself?”

Mā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca.

“Not so, Timbaruka,” said the Buddha.

Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, paraṅkataṁ sukhadukkhanti?

“Then are pleasure and pain made by another?”

Mā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca.

“Not so, Timbaruka,” said the Buddha.

Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca sukhadukkhanti?

“Well, are pleasure and pain made by both oneself and another?”

Mā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca.

“Not so, Timbaruka,” said the Buddha.

Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ sukhadukkhanti?

“Then do pleasure and pain arise by chance, not made by oneself or another?”

Mā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca.

“Not so, Timbaruka,” said the Buddha.

Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, natthi sukhadukkhanti?

“Well, is there no such thing as pleasure and pain?”

Na kho, timbaruka, natthi sukhadukkhaṁ; atthi kho, timbaruka, sukhadukkhanti.

“It’s not that there’s no such thing as pleasure and pain. Pleasure and pain are real.”

Tena hi bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāti, na passatīti?

“Then Master Gotama doesn’t know nor see pleasure and pain.”

Na khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāmi, na passāmi. Jānāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ; passāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhan”ti.

“It’s not that I don’t know or see pleasure and pain. I do know pleasure and pain, I do see pleasure and pain.”

“‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, paraṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, natthi sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘na kho, timbaruka, natthi sukhadukkhaṁ; atthi kho, timbaruka, sukhadukkhan’ti vadesi. ‘Tena hi bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāti, na passatī’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘na khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāmi, na passāmi. Jānāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ; passāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhan’ti vadesi. Ācikkhatu ca me bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhaṁ. Desetu ca me bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhan”ti.

“Master Gotama, when asked these questions, you say ‘not so’. Yet you say that there is such a thing as pleasure and pain. And you say that you do know pleasure and pain, and you do see pleasure and pain. Sir, explain pleasure and pain to me! Teach me about pleasure and pain!”

“‘Sā vedanā, so vedayatī’ti kho, timbaruka, ādito sato ‘sayaṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti evampāhaṁ na vadāmi. ‘Aññā vedanā, añño vedayatī’ti kho, timbaruka, vedanābhitunnassa sato ‘paraṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti evampāhaṁ na vadāmi. Ete te, timbaruka, ubho ante anupagamma majjhena tathāgato dhammaṁ deseti: ‘avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā;

“Suppose that the feeling and the one who feels it are the same thing. Then for one who has existed since the beginning, pleasure and pain is made by oneself. I don’t say this. Suppose that the feeling is one thing and the one who feels it is another. Then for one stricken by feeling, pleasure and pain is made by another. I don’t say this. Avoiding these two extremes, the Realized One teaches by the middle way: ‘Ignorance is a condition for choices.

saṅkhārapaccayā viññāṇaṁ …pe… evametassa kevalassa dukkhakkhandhassa samudayo hoti. Avijjāya tveva asesavirāganirodhā saṅkhāranirodho; saṅkhāranirodhā viññāṇanirodho …pe… evametassa kevalassa dukkhakkhandhassa nirodho hotī’”ti.

Choices are a condition for consciousness. … That is how this entire mass of suffering originates. When ignorance fades away and ceases with nothing left over, choices cease. When choices cease, consciousness ceases. … That is how this entire mass of suffering ceases.’”

Evaṁ vutte, timbaruko paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: “abhikkantaṁ, bho gotama …pe… esāhaṁ bhavantaṁ gotamaṁ saraṇaṁ gacchāmi dhammañca bhikkhusaṅghañca. Upāsakaṁ maṁ bhavaṁ gotamo dhāretu ajjatagge pāṇupetaṁ saraṇaṁ gatan”ti.

When he said this, the wanderer Timbaruka said to the Buddha, “Excellent, sir! Excellent! … I go for refuge to Master Gotama, to the teaching, and to the bhikkhu Saṅgha. From this day forth, may Master Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.”

Aṭṭhamaṁ.